This is a reply to a post from Dr. Love (who I assume is David Roupell) over in the Catbox. I feel it's only fair to mention first that Dr. Love's post replaces a typically fair and reasonable post from John which was in turn a reply to a typical nasty, caustic post from One-Reality directed to him. In other words, One-Reality spat at John, John replied, Cat or some other premie FA erased his response and instead Dr. Love posted the following. It's too bad these people don't have the courage to actually sustain a discussion. But that's what the Catbox is all about, isn't it? Fear and avoidance, vitriol and poison.
And then there's this ....
Dear “ex premies”,
I am kind of tired of your continuing insulting attitude towards Maharaji and towards us, people who still believe in integrity of the Master, and the experience he offers.
I call for a truth!
Do you think it would be possible for you to stop using images that are designed to knock down the dignity of another human being, and sadden those who love him?
The short answer, David, is yes, it would be possible but no, it ain't gonna happen. What you have to remember is that Maharaji purports to have much, much more "dignity" than your average human being. He is, in fact, a pompous ass of a cult leader who believes, and beguiles his followers into believing, that he is so dignified that not a single person alive even approaches his greatness. If you could imagine hoisting his tubby frame into one pan of a giant scale, according to cult mentality, it would be sheer blasphemy to think of anyone else even sitting in the other pan. Maharaji believes, as do you, that no one compares to him. His dignity is that of God himself, you believe. We ridicule him to offset that thinking.
The other problem you have is that you've never come to terms with the fact that we, as former followers, have our own familiarity with the man. It's not a perfect fit by any means but you could analogize us to former spouses. The devotee relationship has some parallels; it's certainly as intense as a marriage in the mind of the devotee, even if the cult leader's attention is somewhere else (such as up the skirt of his mistress). Former spouses have the knowledge and the right to speak out against their former partners. Current spouses might not like it but, if they're fair, they must recognize that that's a right those former spouses have earned just by virtue of having been in the relationship. Current spouses might wish to hell that their partners have no past but if they do, they do. We are all part of Maharaji's past and we're not going away. We've earned the right to speak out against Maharaji however we wish. Fair-minded people outside your cult wouldn't think of questioning that fact. It's beyond obvious.
Can your insulting ways and harsh words change to something based on facts, if you have those facts straight?
Do you feel you could document/backup your allegations before writing anything that most times are filled with anger, poor photocopies and “things of the past” before you publish anything on the Internet?
Now this is rich. I'm sorry, but it's impossible to take you people seriously. I mean, it's hardly as if you ever join us in an issue and discuss it fairly. You don't want facts or evidence and you know it. Why, even your very post essentially replaces a reasoned, rational reply that John wrote to an attack against him by your fellow cult member! What say you to that? Why aren't you encouraging your fellow Catboxers to constrain themselves, allow opposing views and offer a real forum for discussion? I'm sorry but you long ago lost any right to complain about the quality of support we offer for anything we say. Again, any fair-minded person would see that in a second.
The fact is that exes do offer all sorts of evidence for things we allege. But as good ol' Jack said in that stupid Tom Cruise movie: "You want the truth!? You can't handle the truth!"
Michael Dettmers gives a direct eye-witness account of Maharaji killing a cyclist in India. Do you say Dettmers is lying. Why?
See? You can't do it. You can't have this discussion. That's why the forums, which once were just one gathering place for exes and premies to discuss all this stuff, have evolved as they have. You guys are afraid to engage us rationally. So shut up already, please, about our failure to back anything up. You gave up that right a long, long time ago.
If I were you, and that of course I’m not, I would back up with real documentation (links, names and addresses, official documents) to make my statements and messages more credible to anyone who is reading you. Because you might be individually sound, but all together you make people feel like Maharaji is the last person on earth to be trusted. And that in itself is wrong doing. Because if it wasn’t real, they would be more ex-premies than active ones in the practice of Knowledge. Just think how much it hurts to see what you do.
Yes, I'm sure it does hurt you to see and hear our reaction to Maharaji. I don't know what to tell you except for sometimes the truth hurts, I guess. But as for the number of exes versus active premies, come on, you've got to be kidding! There is a relatively small number of interested, vocal exes like us but you know as do we all that most people who ever joined this cult left it far behind. All you have to do is fish out one of your old community or ashram pictures. Maybe an old phone list. Whatever. Again, too, too obvious for words.
Your position is not something that helps this world... on the contrary. Understand what you really are creating when you say the things you presume about Maharaji. This is not a battle of good against evil, because there is no battle. Just human beings who likes to feel happy, others who would like to become happy, and those who have lost contact with happiness. And it is not for me to define in which category we all stand individually.
Are you actually saying that we've lost contact with happiness? Just because we've stopped worshipping your fatted calf? Really, Doc, you're a fool. If you believe that, you're a fool. A complete and utter fool at that.
We all have this experience at hand. What we do with it, should remain in the realms of “keep it or leave it”, and not become an endless war zone for anybody’s arguments.
That is the reason why I suggest you stay in your corner of the world standing on facts only, and we ought to stay in our reality without defying your understanding of existence. Which of course doesn’t mean we ought to remain “enemies”.
Actually, it sounds like you don't know what you mean. Perhaps you should go for counselling. Have you considered talking with someone? Perhaps your family doctor? If you have any friends with school-age children, maybe they can hook you up with one of their kid's guidance counsellors. You've got issues, pal.
What I mean by that is... can we just be all kind to each other, beyond belief and ideas and experiences? I would love to see an effort been made on that level. At least I am willing to help it.
If not I would have tried to bring some sense to this whole stupid saga... just once in my life. If it doesn't work... well, I will first evaluate objectively your response to my plead.
Cheers yourself. You're impossible to talk with about this stuff. Now if you were like any of the couple of premie friends I still have, yes, we could get along. Kinda. We just wouldn't talk about Maharaji and that sometimes works. But these forums are all about him and his cult and so no, there's no way you're ever going to "bring some sense" to anything in your confused state. Like I said, go see a counsellor. Not necessarily Motherwave (although I understand it's an excellent program, especially if you're a potential world leader) but something.