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My reply to Lakeshore
Posted by:
Jim
Date:
11/24/2024, 16:11:57
Original URL:
Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
You wrote:*********************************************
Hello Jim,"What's happened here is that I've been accused of a bunch of things..."In my previous post, I attempted to articulate my opinion of your online character or persona that served as my reason for declining your invitation to talk on the other forum. To eliminate any ambiguity, I'm restating it as preying upon or seeking to use others to satisfy an apparent addiction or craving for arguing, being right, winning at all costs and savoring the last word. I've read too many examples of your callous, needlessly aggressive, patronizing and gratuitously belittling insults and caustic sarcasm to arrive at any other opinion. I've even heard it described as a hobby. Contrary to a bunch of accusations, it's my plain and simple opinion based on my assessment of your own words.In a previous encounter, I sought to establish an online relationship of trust and respect as a basis for debate, but you and a "teammate" tag-teamed to metaphorically carve me into fine dining courses of cocktails, appetizers, entrees, deserts and cordials followed by a celebratory dance. It wasn't about the subject matter. It was all about the sport and the high-fives.(That, of course, doesn't absolve me of any weak or ill-advised things I may have said in the heat of the asymmetrical exhange. As I recall, "unhinged" didn't go over very well.)I've heard from several sources that you are not at all like that in person. I've heard you described as kind, pleasant and fun to be with. Consequently, I'm left with a shroud of disingenuousness in my assessment. Kind, pleasant and fun... with an online alter-ego? Fueled by decades of training and experience in courtroom criminal defense arguing skills? Punching down? In my view, it all adds up to astonishingly disrespectful behavior that leaves me with a deep level of apprehension and mistrust.Politically - and irrespective of my personal views - please know that one of my social circles is comprised largely of Trump supporters. Enroute to those gatherings, I turn off my radio and quietly reflect on their kindness, their authenticity, how much respect I have for them and the fact that I consider it a privilege to hang-out with them and enjoy their company. I've never felt that about your online persona.Your deleted reply to the deleted opening post in this thread notwithstanding, it now appears that you may have contributed to bringing his forum to a (hopefully temporary) freeze. Although you've made extraordinarily valuable contributions to this forum in the past, it now appears that you've adopted a negative and condescending view of many of the posters here, me at least, apparently based on politics that trump the cult in importance, a reluctance to debate with you or even the personal choice to limit oneself to this forum and its purpose. You've mocked the posters here for still caring about the cult, being stuck and not moving on, etc., seemingly as if you'd be happy to see the forum dissolved.In your own words "Yet ...... no one wants to talk about things. Not with me anyway. What a rich delicious topic, this Trump is a cult leader thesis but, no, not really. Real discussion? Real debate? Why bother?"Maybe ask yourself why "no one" wants to talk about things with you. Is it a long list of people? Are all of them hothouse flowers like me? I've clearly expressed my opinion. To cut the crap, I'm sure you already know why and choose to pursue it anyway. Regardless, when I did engage with you, you bombarded me with so many links to lengthy articles and demands for responses that it became the equivilent of an unpaid part-time job to try to keep up. Most people simply don't have the time, inclination or similar priorities, which in no way diminishes or reflects poorly on them.As you surely know, especially as it relates to this post, no one is as one-dimensional as my words - and yours - appear to convey. Certainly not you or me or any of the others here. The more I learn from and about them, the more I'm humbled by their depth and life experiences, and the more it causes me to reflect upon my own limitations, shortcomings and arrogance. That kind of introspection may run counter to the chest thumping "eat what you kill" world some people promote and believe themselves to be living in, but it's consistent with my measures of success, growth and satisfaction. It will not be belittled.I hope this reaches you. Again, this has nothing to do with politics or any of your views or arguments, and everything to do with your online persona. I'm sure you really are very different in person, which is why I find your persona on these forums so disturbing.Please don't waste your time trying to further reduce me for any of this unless it makes you feel better. You can't reduce someone who's pulled themselves up from zero by their own boot straps many times over.If it helps, I was encouraged by one self-effacing comment of yours on the forum: "We all have feelings, (name deleted), even us assholes." Your words, not mine.Bob__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________For consideration by the forum administrator: as always, please feel free to delete this or any post that crosses the line in terms of forum guidelines.
To which I reply:
That's a very nicely appointed, thoughtful in the sense that you clearly put some work in the arrangement, bouquet of poison flowers. And I'm not buying it.
You accuse me of:
"preying upon or seeking to use others to satisfy an apparent addiction or craving for arguing, being right, winning at all costs and savoring the last word. I've read too many examples of your callous, needlessly aggressive, patronizing and gratuitously belittling insults and caustic sarcasm to arrive at any other opinion. I've even heard it described as a hobby. Contrary to a bunch of accusations, it's my plain and simple opinion based on my assessment of your own words."
Fine. Maybe you're right. At minimum, though, right or wrong, you must have some examples. Obviously not at your fingertips but not hard to find. The non-forum moves at a glacial pace these days and the archives, although not complete and sometimes having only stubs of threads rather than whole conversations, still has a lot.
So show me some evidence, please. I'm more than willing to see what you say reflects this horridly abusive, indeed sadistic, predatory, what was your word - "salivating" behavior you claim's so far beyond the pale.
The only specific accusation I'm hearing is that I:
bombarded me with so many links to lengthy articles and demands for responses that it became the equivilent of an unpaid part-time job to try to keep up.
Really, Bob? Are you serious? That's it? That's part of what you call "astonishingly disrespectful"? Because I try to rely upon evidence and ask the same of people I'm discussing things with? That's a bit sensationalistic, don't you think?
What about just playing the ball, Bob? Why would that be so hard? I know, you say it's because you claim that I so badly abused you before but, sorry, I don't see it. Like I said, give me some examples. One. Just one. And I'll consider it. Otherwise, I'm saying no, that's not it. There's something else going on here but it's not that.
