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Thurs, Nov 11, 1999 at 21:42:05 (EST)







Fuck you Shp, you PHOBIASS!!
In a thread below, way below, entitled 'What is Hate', there was a fascinating display of of what IMO is Shp's total dishonesty, lack of sincerity and his bullshit attempt to dissuade exes fom participating in this forum, by in jecting what can only be called a cult like phobia into the discussion.
Nothing less than a suicide phobia. How very sweet.
Here's how he does it.
In his reponse to a post by Roger, Shp responds as follows in his post entitled 'Response to Roger and all'.

....I don't come here to quench my thirst, and I wonder whatever gave you that idea. Colorful language, but no substance to it.

The one issue of any substance that I ran across here - the Jagdeo matter - I became an advocate of and wrote to EV and Maharaji about it. Some EV muckity mucks might even have me on their shit list for that, who gives a fuck? I did what I thought was right. Premie or not, I am who I am. I do not buy into the weird concepts of what premies are as presented here or in the lives of some actual wacknuts who happen to have Knowledge.

The real issue as I see it is who are the people trying to be kind and who are the assholes?
Definition of kind: Doing good rather than harm.
Definition of asshole: Nothing but shit comes out of it.
That's the dividing line for me lately, not if somebody got K from M or PDQ or any other initials.

People coming to Knowledge may happen upon this website and change their minds. People leaving Knowledge may happen to read a premie post here and change their minds. I understand your desire to have a sheltered environment to do what you do with new arrivals, but sooner or later they will have to face the world and have the strength of their own convictions and not the vicarious power of an old timer who has been encouraging them and working with them.

Do you have licensed, bonded counselors over here who know what the hell they are doing? What happens if you are helping someone out of the 'cult' as you call it, and they flip out and hurt or kill themselves or someone else? Are you then responsible for their actions the same as you accuse Maharaji of being when premies have flipped out? I sincerely do not wish this scenario on you or anyone but hey, it could happen. Think about it. Gotta look at both sides of the coin.

(Emphasis IS SHP'S OWN!)

When Roger responds to Shp pointing out the the ridiculousness of his argument, Shp's ready and he's all gung ho. Here it is.

Your reply is a cop out and you know it, Roger. The simple question is, if you are counseling someone who is leaving the 'cult' as you call it and they do something terrible to themselves or someone else, do you accept any of the legal or moral responsibility that perhaps you may have just said or suggested something not quite right in your attempt to to what you think is right and triggered a violent response unknowingly and unintentionally in the life of a fragile and injured soul, causing injury and possibly even death? It's a fair question and deserves more than your avoidance, if you have the integrity to face me on this and answer clearly.

Well now JHB enters the discussion and asks Shp if he thinks then that it would be a good idea for exes to stop talking here. Of course Shp responds that isn't his idea, but he ain't really backing down on his drive.

No, that is not what I am suggesting. What I am saying is that the responsibility for someone doing something hamrful to themselves or others is not always in the hands of those who are trying to help bring some good (as they see it) into the lives of others. This goes for you as well as Maharaji and his organization. If you attribute blame to him for those who did something outrageous (not referring to Jagdeo here - he is still on the table) while in his influence, then you must assume the same responsibility for those who may do something outrageous while in your influence. Otherwise, it's individual karma, and Maharaji is not responsible for premies who went off any more than you'd be if a new ex went postal while posting here daily. Are you willing to accept that? If not, then play another game that doesn't have such high stakes as human life and welfare.

JHB of course replied making an excellent case for Shp as to why his reasoning wasn't correct on this one, but hey, our Shpey's a man with a mission.

Your calm and well worded reply is appreciated, yet you miss my point. Even if you do not have the same level of agreement with new ex-premies as Maharaji had, you are still giving advice, counseling, suggestions, and expressing your own experiences to someone who you know could be in a very fragile state. Are you or anyone here prepared to take on the responsibility for dropping or injuring that frgile being or triggering them to do something hurtful to themselves or someone else by your own ineptitude and/or personal transferred anger towards Maharaji? Messing with someone who is going through something like this can cause damage too, even if your intentions are good in your eyes.
Dante said the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And if you can accept this, I beleive that my post here is objective and not supportive or non-supportive of either side. Just look at this one issue and call the dogs off ofr me personally, or don't. The truth is not determined by popular vote on this site. It is independent of you, me and everybody and stands on its own virtue.

Why do you think society has developed trained, licensed counselors to deal with people who have deep problems? Are you taking the law into your own hands and laboring under the illusion that you can do no harm? Think again. you think you can counsel other folks just because you are having the same experience they are having. Not enough data, John, and I think you are smart enough to know it.

I am not here trying to hamper your activities or even slow you down. I am just saying objectively that the members of your site could unintentionally push someone over the edge who is coming away from Maharaji as easily as a demented instructor used to scar premies, and without even knowing it or understanding how it happened.

So what I hear you saying is that if a new ex is around here and posting regularly and getting all the news from the usual suspects, then out of grief or depression or some referred emotion that was magnified by someone here, feeds himself a bullet right after one particularly heavy night of reading, let's say Jim's vitriolic bombast, that no one here is in any way responsible. I disagree. When you try to help someone in any situation, you assume some of the moral responsibility for their welfare, period.

Now I had been reading Steve Hassan's 'Combatting Cult Mind Control' when all this yapping was going on by Shp about the potentially hazardous even tragic consequences awaiting exes, especially recent ones posting on this forum.
and here's what Hassan has to say about cult phobias.

What do phobias have to do with cult groups and mind control? In some cults, members are systematically made to be phobic about ever leaving the group. today's cults know how to effectively implant vivid negative images deep within member's unconscious minds, making it impossible for the member to even conceive of ever being happy and successful outside the group.
When the unconscious is programmed to accept the negative images, it behaves as though they were true. The unconscious mind is made to contain a substantial image bank-bank of all the bad things that will occur if anyone should ever betray the group. Members are programmed either overtly or subtly (depending on the organization) to believe that if they ever leave, they will die of some horrible disease , be hit by a car, be killed in a plane crash, or perhaps even cause the death of loved ones...
...cult phobias take away peoples choices. Members truly believe they will be destroyed if they leave the safety of the group. they think there are no other ways for them to grow--spiritually, intellectually, or emotionally. They are virtually enslaved by this mind control technique.

Well after reading this I thought of Shp and what he was doing on the forum,raising the phobic spectre of suicide for recent exes posting on the forum, and I began to think that this was what he was doing. A classic cult like mind fuck aimed at thwarting the participation of recent exes on this forum. So I called him on it in a post entitled, 'Shp, take your cult like phobias and shove it!!', where I also pointed out to Shp that his phobic dribble flew right in the face of what the experts were saying about the benefits for former cult members in participating in support groups of their peers. Well it took Shp a few days to reply, and if you've read the posts that I quoted above, and now read Shp's latest piece of denial and confusion....well you can judge for yourself.

I am not trying to induce phobias or any of the other accusations you mentioned. I am merely saying that Maharaji has repeatedly said that he is not a therapist and some folks need therapy before receiving Knowledge. If that is so, why do you hold him responsible for what people did who came to him? He has said many times that he does one thing and that is it. He reveals Knowledge. You want him to be a doctor, a nursemaid, a therapist, and so many other things you have heaped on him.
How convenient for you. His trip changed. What doesn't change in this world? The one thing he came to do, he has not waivered in accomplishing...he has been spreading Knowledge to people who want to have inner peace. Outer lives are messed up everywhere. Healing the inner is the first step.
Humanity got messed up over a period of thousands of years? You want fast-food microwave world peace. Not gonna happen.

I too have questions about things that have changed over the years, but nothing that would make me deny the fact that Knowledge is a tangible experience that helps me experience life on a more beautiful level whenever I practice. The questions I have do not shake my faith in Knowledge or the person who helped me experience it.

Shp, you can skate like a son of a bitch in this medium when you have to. Jim really has a point... you just wouldn't be able to get away with this on the phone, let alone in any face to face situation. You just couldn't duck out in one of those situations, and then come back with the pure and utter bullshit denial of a post, that you came back with in this instance.
I have to tell you Shp, that IMO your performance in that thread was pathetic. IF I ever gave you any credit of posessing even one iota of sincerity and honesty...I take it all back.
IMO, you're just a programmed cultlike little prick, and you certainly don't hesitate to play your cultlike little mindfucks on this forum.
How anyone could ever want to even read you here, let alone talk to you is beyond me.

But to each his own.

5 Brighter than 1000 suns as seen through night vision goggles
4 As bright as the lights on Maharaji's jet
3 As bright as a 60 watt light bulb
2 As bright as a pile of burning ghi on a swinging arti tray
1 As bright as the inner light as seen by the third eye