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Re: The Unlit Match argument
 Posted by: Premie response
 Date: 01/11/2005, 01:34:36
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
Babalugi asks - ďDoes anyone know what itís like in the Weird Whirled of Knowledge these days?Ē

I know. Iíve had Knowledge for more than 30 years and have been involved with DLM/EV, gone to Amaroo and even gone to the odd training.Whatís the world of Knowledge like these days, same as itís been for the last 30 years.There are those people who received Knowledge and make the effort to practice it and benefit from it and as a consequence have respect for Knowledge and Maharaji; and there are those people who decide not to practice, think itís irrelevant and couldnít care less about Maharaji.

And what about people who practice for years and then become anti?I consider them the same as people who end any relationship/activity and then spend years bagging their former partner/activity.If it was so bad, why give it another momentís thought, surely your fabulous new life is totally absorbing and satisfying.Some exes claim they post as a cathartic experience or as a warning to others.I would suggest that there is a limit to dwelling on old injuries and a real risk of hypochondria.

Babalugi gives ďJagdeo, Monica, the drinking, the pot smoking, the money, his nasty personality, etcď as reasons why they stopped practising.It hasnít stopped me.Why?Because knowing a pedophile isnít a slur on your character (I knew him as well). nor is having an open marriage, drinking, smoking pot or being rich.The question I ask is ďHow has Maharaji treated me, personally?ĒAnd my answer, for the last 30 years, is ďWith love and respectĒ.Nasty personality?I love my partner but I am in no doubt that my nastiest behaviour has been reserved for them.Does that necessitate the end of the relationship?

Knowledge isnít about others, itís about you.Itís not about what other people say, itís about what you have experienced. Knowledge isnít a spectator sport and never has been, it is only about what practising the techniques does for you, not your neighbour, not your husband, you.

As for the ďunlit matchĒ analogy.Most posters seem to have missed the point.Maharaji was simply stating the obvious, in any endeavour, not matter how worthy, there must always be people who donít get it.And even more obvious, in any endeavour, no matter how worthy, there will always be people who give up.How else can you explain the huge numbers of people who would like to give up (put your own vice in here) but can never quite get it together.Or who do (put your own virtue here) and then stop.

Babalugi asks- ďWith the possibility of premies becoming ex-premies is it possible that there exists a certain degree of apprehension and mistrust in the premie community?Ē

Not in the slightest.Knowledge has only ever been a personal experience.When I received Knowledge 95% of my friends and family didnít, it didnít stop me from taking Knowledge and has never bothered me since.The drop out rate for long termers isn't great and if you take Neville Ackland and John MacGregor as examples, not very successful.Am I concerned that you have stopped practicing Knowledge and now hate Maharaji?Not in the slightest.You are repsonsible for your life and choices, not me.I practice Knowledge for the effect it has on me.I enjoy being fit, I enjoy my hobbies, I enjoy my life, I donít care two hoots what other people are doing.

Hope this is of value

Re: The Unlit Match argument
 Posted by: NikW
 Date: 01/11/2005, 02:50:31
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)

 >I donít care two hoots what other people are doing<

Is that where 30 years of following Rawat has brought you ?

What you do, what Rawat does, what the whole TPRF/EV promo machine does - affects the rest of the world. You, Rawat and the 'Knowledge' selilng orgs are pushing a set of ideals and values - like any other ideology the one that  you promote is open to challenge.

 If you want to understand (not something common in premies) what might motivate some of us to keep up a challenge to Rawatism - read Sue's post below - read EV's FAQs where the mental health of Rawat's critics is used to defend EV - then look at the type of tactics used by Scientology and its obsession with denying the reality of psychological distress. 

 Just because premies 'don't care' - doesn't mean that others don't. Rawat has created a cult of egocentricity and selfishness - like guru, like follower.

Re: The Unlit Match argument
 Posted by: Cynthia
 Date: 01/11/2005, 05:26:02
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)
Because knowing a pedophile isnít a slur on your character (I knew him as well).

There's a huge difference between knowing Jagdeo as you and others did, and having total control over him because he was a Mahatma.  Maharaji was his boss and was responsible for him because M was the head of DLM. 

As for the ďunlit matchĒ analogy. Most posters seem to have missed the point. Maharaji was simply stating the obvious, in any endeavour, not matter how worthy, there must always be people who donít get it. And even more obvious, in any endeavour, no matter how worthy, there will always be people who give up. How else can you explain the huge numbers of people who would like to give up (put your own vice in here) but can never quite get it together. Or who do (put your own virtue here) and then stop.

So, now I've missed the point.  What part of Maharaji's agya didn't I understand?  I faithfully practiced satsang (went every night), did service (hardly ever had a gap and was assigned service by the community coordinator from the time  was an aspirant) and I usually meditated more than Maharaji prescribed.  I never broke the ashram rules.  Not once. 

I worshipped Maharaji, did everything in my power to surrender to him, I kissed his feet, went to see him before I got K and certainly after.  I gave up my life for him and I moved into the ashram as he asked of all available premies at the time. 

What did I miss?

Am I concerned that you have stopped practicing Knowledge and now hate Maharaji?

I don't hate Maharaji.  Premies and Maharaji's Elan Vital website say that I hate him, but I don't.





Re: The Unlit Match argument
 Posted by: OTS
 Date: 01/11/2005, 06:53:40
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)

If it [practicing for years] was so bad, why give it another momentís thought, surely your fabulous new life is totally absorbing and satisfying.

Yeah, sure.  Well, Mr. Big Shot, it isn't!  I am sorry that you don't give a crap about anything or anyone else in this world.  Me included.  You're so sure about my life, are you?  Did you send your check into Maharaji's 501(3)(c) organization for the Tsumani Relief effort so his organization can take its 50% cut in "expenses" before sending the other 50% on to a real charity doing works on the ground in South Asia?  Like the latest Press Release indicates, not a subjee has yet been cooked by the Delhi Ashram premies to feed anyone with the Hundred Grand collected.  Are there any victims in Delhi?  No.  How will they get to the southern end of the country?  Bullock cart?  They're still studying the situation.  Meanshile, a half million peole are dead.  Will you be flying to LA next week for the event to hear M remind you to breath?  Will you be staying in a hotel?  Going out to West Hollywood for dinner?  Or helicoptering in from Malibu?  Surely you must be a little egomaniacal like your guru, no?  Surely you know everything in the world there is to know in that you practice Knowledge.  Surely you are all-knowing, now that you've practiced Knowledge for 30 years.  Surely you're so full of crap.    I practiced devotedly for 30 years and all I got was a back row seat and a lousy $100 EVEN IN YOUR DARKEST HOUR I WILL NOT ABANDON YOU watch.  My hearing is going as is my sight.  But my ear for bullcrap remains atuned.  Don' assume so much.  Your pompous attitude is what I used to have.  In fact, all my friends who weren't premies have now abandoned me because of it.  And now that I'm "anti," well, you and all premies I know have shunned me and abandoned me.  That's okay because  surely [my] fabulous new life is totally absorbing and satisfying. Wrong.  If you're so satisfied, why do you feel the need to come here and instruct us on how to live.

Re: The Unlit Match argument
 Posted by: Jonathan
 Date: 01/11/2005, 07:18:44
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)

Whatís the world of Knowledge like these days, same as itís been for the last 30 years.

I had to laugh when I read your quote, PR. You're right that things haven't changed. Here is why: thirty years ago, the 1970's documentary "Lord of the Universe" chronicled the events surrounding the Houston Astrodome fiasco, during which a young Maharaji promised the world a lasting peace, harmony, and a rollicking good time. Not much has changed since the filming of the documentary.

One of the most telling scenes, then and now, was at the airport prior to the Astrodome. When Maharaji landed in Houston, his handlers adorned him with flower garlands. After a brief speech that would make any Toastmaster cringe, the flower garlands were pulled apart and doled out to pleading hands of Maharaji's followers.

Then, the premies with flowers held them close to their nostrils, gleefully sniffing in their master's lingering neck sweat. Meanwhile, the unlucky premies who had not received a flower bellowed and cried amidst the ambivalent flower-sniffers' covert smiles to each other.

So, back to your comment that the "world of Knowledge" is the "same as its been for the last 30 years" (sic), you're right! In today's "Events with Maharaji," followers still worship your master's feet (literally and figuratively).

Granted, some things have changed. For example, in today's events, during the trance-inducing musical performances, dancing in the aisles is strictly forbidden. Violators are quickly swarmed and whisked away by security officers using state-of-the-art surveillance equipment.

But, overall, today's events recall the same behaviors captured in the "Lord of the Universe" documentary. For example, Maharaji is constantly surrounded by handlers (who, incidentally, make convenient scapegoats for Maharaji). One thing is certain, Maharaji behaves in exactly the same way as he did thirty years ago, namely, by constantly trying to re-invent himself to sell his message to new audiences. Thirty years ago he was a "prophet." Later, he became a "teacher." Now, he is a "successful businessman." What will he be tomorrow? The answer is best left to the wind, PR.

More importantly, Maharaji still speaks in completely non-sensical terms that would make any Hollywood continuity editor blush. Between the lectures(?), followers do not discuss Maharaji's message because, simply put, his message amounts to nothing more than heaping doses of tautology upon tautology. Nowadays, the subject is oftentimes a plant that grows in the desert, or a pilot that knows nothing about engines. What substantive issues are there for Maharaji's followers to discuss and ponder?

Maharaji's current message is no different than his message thirty years ago.  Sure, the packaging might be different. But, at its core, the thread remains the same: when the master barks, the obedient dogs had better come running.


Very revealing
 Posted by: Will
 Date: 01/11/2005, 07:30:07
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)

Your post probably cannot be used to criticize you over much since it is impossible to judge a person from such little information.  But what your post does reveal is a very unworthy attitude.  I'm not sure you are really as narrow-minded and downright stupid as your post indicates.

Why do I say stupid?  Because only an unintelligent person would defend Rawat's alleged nasty behavior in the way that you did, by saying that even the nastiest behavior is no reason to end a relationship.  You've ended up admitting the point in question, even condoning it, without seeming to realize what you are doing.  Stupid.

Why do I say narrow-minded?  Well, all premies are narrow-minded because they are willing to exclusively follow a path that involves Rawat as the only authority figure and the four techniques as the defined proper way for inner exploration.  But the inner realities and the sources of beauty and truth can never be so narrowly defined.  You, as an example of a premie, have demonstrated and personified this narrow-minded quality in blazing light.  All you care about is what you experience from practicing those four techniques.  Period.  You admit it freely, even proudly, and have no idea what kind of impression you are making on reasonable people who don't share you own narrow-mindedness.

But, what is also interesting is what you do NOT reaveal.  Your name and what it is that you experience with the four techniques.  You don't really answer the original questions except in the vaguest terms possible, that you like it.  Well, if you like it, great.  But that doesn't explain anything to us.  So, who are you and what do you experience?  If you are so satisfied and so proud, why not proclaim it loudly and clearly so that we can all understand.  The fact is that we are ex-premies, and we already know what it is that premies experience.  And we already know why they stay anonymous and quiet and don't really share their inner wisdom.  Because it is mostly struggle, being a premie.  Mostly struggle to live up to the ideal that has been imposed upon you.  Enjoy each and every breath with great gratitude for being alive!  Is that what you experience?  Don't bother to answer because I know the answer already. 

Maharaji is living in a dream world.  And so are you.  And you deserve each other.  And it would be easy to just walk and move on and forget the whole thing.  But it's so sad.  Somebody needs to fight it.   Rawat is currently in a campaign to make himself appear legitimate.  He will not succeed because he is patently and obviously illegitimate and everybody can see that clearly except for a few fools like you.  And you, who try to help him legitimize himself, can do no more than stubbornly adhere to your own cultish belief system, which is obvious everytime you open your mouth about your Master and his perfect Knowledge.

See link for the blatant efforts to make Rawat appear legitimate, (by booking him at Harvard and U.N. buildings and requesting that mayors of cities give him awards and contacting certain obscure magazines to print fraudulent "interviews.")  As long as Rawat continues to perpetrate his dream world, there will be people who will fight him.   Get used to it.

And by the way, good luck with getting all your friends to listen to the Keys and join you in your cult.  Because that's what your Master wants you to do this year.  The Keys are going to bring peace to so many people in 2005.  Oh, but that's right, you don't care about all those other people.

At the link below, scroll down to Richard Cooper and "enhancing Maharaji's legitimacy."

Related link:
Modified by Will at Tue, Jan 11, 2005, 11:16:04

5 Brighter than 1000 suns as seen through night vision goggles
4 As bright as the lights on Maharaji's jet
3 As bright as a 60 watt light bulb
2 As bright as a pile of burning ghi on a swinging arti tray
1 As bright as the inner light as seen by the third eye

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