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Great analysis
 Posted by: Susan
 Date: 09/05/2024, 01:17:01
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)

I kind of think he can make friends the way Michael Jackson could. I have read about him. It was, not really, he could make people feel like they were friends but when it came down to the power differential he wasn't giving that up for friendship. 


I noted Mishler, Dettmers, and others felt a glimpse of some fleeting vulnerabilty and connection in a human way. I would bet someone like Monika has felt that and had it withdrawn a zillion times. I don't know if that's just a classic narcissist or some special playbook. But I bet he's never had a real friend. Though I do wonder about his valet. I think you are describing something similar with the Brian. I have seen this dynamic with others- the "friend" feels they have some special connection with the misunderstood inscrutible man- and the man has a series of people who all feel they alone have this- but none of them really do- it's like a dance or a game or a card the one in power plays. 

Do you think that fits your impression? 




Re: Great analysis
 Posted by: Nik
 Date: 09/06/2024, 09:16:03
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)

Yes I think that's right up to a point. Those behaviours can be characterised as sociopathic but in Prem's case I'd suggest it's just an anxiety response - coupled with a mundane caste informed snobbery. It's why I think once Prem is in the company of older males who he considers appropriate to his station in life, he probably is capable of genuine friendship rather than mere transactional advantage, so on that point I disagree.

I don't doubt that Prem has many narcisistic behaviours, but I'm uncomfortable relying on the narcissist label as a kind of end point description of who he is. Pathalogical narcissism is a personality disorder and a pretty extreme diagnosis that's difficult for even professional psychs to agree upon. There are thousands of greedy, selfish and self agrandising people for every full blown pathological narcissist. Those with a personality disorder are unable to be different than they are - in Prem's case my sense is that he never learned, nor was it never demanded of him that he be a kinder, less self centred human being, rather than that he is incapable by dint of his brain function. To that extent I allow the possibility that he is occasionally capable of being a better human




Re: Great analysis but...
 Posted by: lakeshore
 Date: 09/10/2024, 07:53:39
 Original URL: Click here (However, the link may be stale.)

Sheesh, I've only spent about a week perseverating over this... drafted and deleted a post, deleted an evasive, meandering post and so on. But I kept this one and Susan inspired me to finally go with it:


"To that extent I allow the possibility that he is occasionally capable of being a better human"

As someone who's quoted you and benefited immensely from things you've said, it's hard to disagree with your insights. Yet, I've never observed or even heard of examples of the kinds of behavior associated with genuine friendship, especially as it relates to accepting a friend as an equal or even looking-up to them for inspiration and support. He may be capable - I can't disagree - but after fifty-plus years, I don't have any publicly available evidence or even anecdotes to go on. A lot of followers have shared their stories - that's what they love to do - and I don't recall any that included genuine down off the pedestal equal status friendship. The San Ysidro conference comes to mind.

To the contrary, we're all familiar with the long list of examples of his extremely abhorrent behaviors about which he's shown not an iota of guilt or remorse, let alone accountability. His deception in terms of concealing behaviors he doesn't want others to know about is off the charts. And I'm particularly concerned about his apparent lack of empathy in terms of an ability to recognize or acknowledge the plain-as-day harm in the form of derailment and altered trajectories he's responsible for in the lives of many followers who took his misguided dictates seriously.

If it's not a pathological, diagnosable mental condition, then what is the mechanism - the thing, the condition - that prevents him from changing; that prevents him from shifting gears towards striving to be the better person he's presumably capable of being... from demonstrating the better human characteristics we're all familiar with?

Why doesn't he just do it? It's not that difficult.

I've never once heard - or heard of - him saying "thank you" to an individual or group of individuals or praise them for their achievements. To the contrary, I sat in an auditorium and endured an hour of him pummeling us... shouting at us angrily and berating us for our pathetic lack of focus and devotion to him. Demanding total and absolute devotion, surrender and obedience. Using profanity and calling us profane names. He was so angry and disgusted with us (for no apparent or discernable reason and after multiple Herculean achievements in service to him, e.g., DECA, his residence, festivals, etc.) that he got up and walked off the stage.

Then it sounded like he was throwing bricks behind the curtain. Pindrop silence, paralizing anxiety and off the charts tension... and Bang! Bang!! Boom!!... dead silence. What kind of person behaves like that... treats other people like property as if he literally owns them? And as we all know, there are far worse examples of his abuse.

If it's not diagnosable, then what is it? For me, bad upbringing, bad influences, a different culture, never learned, never demanded of, lack of good role models, etc., do not fully account for the extremes I've witnessed and heard about. 

One would think living in western culture/society and traveling the world over for fifty-plus would've overridden all that, especially for a person with any inclination towards being a better person. Again, if he's capable, then why doesn't he, and if he does, then why are there so few examples or anecdotes. Yes, there are certainly occasions - there must be - but what about as a baseline for character?

I guess you could say I'm struggling a little bit with this one. Maybe I've missed something or misunderstood or misinterpreted, much like my penchant for doing a great job painting the house at the wrong address! 



5 Brighter than 1000 suns as seen through night vision goggles
4 As bright as the lights on Maharaji's jet
3 As bright as a 60 watt light bulb
2 As bright as a pile of burning ghi on a swinging arti tray
1 As bright as the inner light as seen by the third eye

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